Teaching the roll is something that I dedicated much of my professional life to. Unfortunately for paddlers, there are a lot of different techniques out there that are taught, and a lot of “old wives tales” related to what is a safe and proficient roll. On the negative side of that, it means at best, that paddlers’ focus is taken off of what is truly important for a successful roll making them have to try to figure it out, and at the worst, it prevents a very large percentage of new kayakers from learning their rolls well enough to be dependable, and their paddling career never takes off.
I generally focus on what is good in the paddling world, which is 99% of it, but it needs to be understood that if you are not fully comfortable with your roll and can’t count on it when you need it at 100%, you are most likely just don’t have the information you need to practice and get it to the level you want. Meanwhile, the Brace is a great place to start if you want a great roll. Here is something from 2003 with little Emily and Dane.
We will get into the roll, but I want to give some background, so you understand how deep this has been examined and proven out.
I don’t take anything in kayaking that is told to me as fact, or at least not since 1992. Every technique, every idea, every design concept, etc. was put on the table as potentially 180 degrees backwards and that, along with hard work and a desire to innovate, put me on the path to success in the sport. Prior to 1992 I took everything my USA Team coach told me, everything I read from the top people, and boat designers as accurate.
Here are some examples of “old wives tales” that existed in the kayaking world not that long ago, and what was told to beginners by the best schools in the world, and what the best companies and boat designers told the world as well.
- A planing hulled kayak has no place for beginners. Displacement hulls are for beginners. This was the mantra from the top schools (I won’t name names, but they were the “leaders of instruction” in the USA, England, etc.). As late 2010 for many, but almost 100% in 2000.
- You can’t make a freestyle kayak shorter and faster, or higher volume and easier to flatwater cartwheel. (2010 it was proven that you could, but engineers argued that it was impossible and so did every kayak company)
- You shouldn’t let your body go to the back deck when rolling because it is unsafe. This is happening today and has been since 1992 when a virus hit the rolling instructional world that reached critical mass and got people to teach the C to C roll and other ones that stipulated body and paddle movements that were not doing paddlers any favors.
The article below is written in real time when there was a big discussion about what kind of boat is easiest to roll, a displacement hull, or a planing hull. What is funny about this (Very long read) is that there is a lot of good, intelligent, talk and insight by an engineer breaking down what works and doesn’t, but the focal point is off to the point that the entire discussion won’t help his rolling technique, and nothing he is talking about will, and even the boat discussion is off point and points to the hull, versus the only part of the boats that affect your roll. (Listed below)
Just for fun, I googled the roll and techniques and wanted to find an older online article and this popped up-
July 26, 2006
Here was the opening Email to me…
EJ,
I have an interesting idea for a panel discussion debate at one of the big kayaking meetings. (AWA Annual or something like that.)
In a “Rolling and Bracing” video, a guy named Eric Jackson said (paraphrasing), “only a village idiot would ever believe that any boat is any harder to roll than other boat. I am ERIC JACKSON!!! And I say it ain’t true!!!”
On another DVD (that came with a Jackson Fun) another guy named Eric Jackson said that his boats are easy to roll. Obviously, the first Eric Jackson would find this notion preposterous since no boat is easier to roll than any other boat.
Maybe (at one of the big meetings alluded to above) the two Eric Jackson’s could have a panel discussion and debate on this point.
Actually, the first guy is wrong. People’s kayaking careers have almost ended because of switching from a Godzilla to an EZ. The Godzilla did it’s roll thing in Zoom Flume, Pinball, Three Rocks, Spikebuck (and pretty much every other named rapid) on the Arkansas. The EZ, on the other hand, led to swims in a pool (as well a kissing an offside roll good bye forever). After a lot ( a real lot) of pain and anguish (continuing somewhat in a Liquidlogic Hoss) I tried a Jackson 4 Fun last week. I actually described the 4 Fun (to another guy and my wife) as “embarassingly easy” to roll. As a PhD aerospace engineer with Lockheed Martin, I am still dumbfounded at the performance of the Fun boat. I still can’t decide whether it is due to the exterior hull design or the superior outfitting. The hull response is very slick, but I also feel like the interior design (wearing a boat rather than sitting in a boat) results in almost 100% transmission of body torque into the roll. Whatever it is, I never believed it possible. The 4 Fun is actually too small, but I am definitely going to look into the Super Fun. Interested in buying a Hoss cheap?
(As far as why I spent more time rolling than kayaking, I need to go back and view “Kayaking with Eric Jackson” again. I just need to check which Eric Jackson did that video. I’m suspicious of the first guy.)
Tom d.
Here is my response:
Hi Thomas,
All you have said is spot on and true, however, there are simply missing facts that would lead a PHD aerospace engineer to be dumbfounded. As a “self proclaimed” PHD of kayak rolling, and kayaking in general, I have this tidbit to offer you, which you can prove to be factual through video analysis of yourself and friends. (fun project!)
The thing engineers don’t study a lot of, generally, is psychology. It is the brain that determines whether or not you will successfully roll a boat or not, not the boat. Don’t stress yet, I have some explaining to do to understand why I would say your first paraphrased sentence, and still focus so hard on making a boat “easy to roll” at the same time. (I had already done the boat design of the Fun when I was making that video).
I can hand roll the Hoss, EZ, Fun, or any boat with one hand. One hand has probably 1/10th the power of a 199 cm paddle with normal blades. As I describe in my video, a paddle is like a bazooka, while a single hand is like a BB gun. You can make a bunch of mistakes and still roll with a paddle, where you must roll fairly well to roll with one hand. However, if you can roll a boat with one hand, it makes no physical sense that you can’t roll it with a paddle! You could use a variety of physics methods to prove the amount of energy it takes each boat to roll and you would be shocked at how similar they really are, and ultimately you would have to look elsewhere to why it is through general public perception, including yourself, hard to roll. You already identified one possibility, the outfitting, or “cockpit design”. While that actually does make a big difference in the “reality of whether a boat is easy to roll or not” it can be proven physically that it makes little difference.
Now- I will identify the things that determine in practice (reality, on the river, or in the pool) whether a boat is easy to roll or not. (this list is what I know today, hopefully I’ll learn more in the future)
Rear cockpit height- lower the easier- period
Backband height- lower the easier- period
sidewalls of the boat- more flaired the easier
Width chine to chine- less is easier
body contact with the boat- the more the easier
Now- All of the above, I will reiterate should not be bought into by any kayaker, because while each of them improves the rolling of a kayak by a small margin, the difference between rolling or not rolling can’t be found on that list. If you can roll a Fun you can roll a Hoss— IF…
If you complete your hip snap and keep your head down. BUT YOU DON’T, DO YOU! So the question is why do I bring my head up when I try to roll the Hoss? Is it because the boat is so hard to roll that I know I can’t make it and therefore I self destruct on purpose? No, that isn’t it:
Now here is the most important discovery I have made in rolling a kayak and in boat design and it is 100% psychological, but it can’t be ignored if you want to have people successfully rolling your kayak.
The moment you have done 50% of your hip snap and your boat is going from upside down to its side, and passing that point, you are in the position where you will do one of two things.
1. you will perceive that things are going really well and your brain will remain focused on the task at hand (upright the kayak with your hips) or:
2. you will perceive some difficulty or challenge and go to autopilot (self destruct mode) where your intuitive response is to get your body out of the water (which means lift your body and head with muscles that are on the opposite side from the muscles that create a hip snap, which turns your boat on top of you (left knee for righty rolls). While you may try in vain to save yourself by pulling as hard as you can on the paddle diving it until there is nothing left and crashing back in the water, you have self-destructed, you have not tested two boats equally.
Here is where different boats succeed or fail in passing the psychology test that allows you to get to the end zone without self-destructing and failing on your roll (not because the boat doesn’t roll, because you stopped using rolling technique and go to head lifting, anti-hip snapping mode)
1. flat side walls, no flair- Flair in the sidewall means that once you get 50% of the way up the boat tries to upright itself, with maybe 5 pounds of pressure or less. That 2-5 pounds of assistance is a mental stimulus like a hand of god that allows you to go the distance and continue your hip snap. Throw the same person in the same basic boat with no flair and they get to that point and feel 2-5 pounds of ‘resistance’ (actually just less assistance) and resort to self-destructing technique.
2. Rear cockpit, backband- these truly do make a difference, if you are hand rolling, by more than 5 pounds. Since Work = ForceXDistance; anything that prevents you from being able to keep your body low to the water during the roll increases the difficulty of rolling, assuming you would otherwise have taken advantage of the low body position. You can measure the minimum body height you can stay upright in (laying on the back deck, head arched towards the water). The Fun is on the water, while some boats are at least 1 foot higher (or more), meaning 130 foot/pounds of work if your body weighs that. This makes a big difference if you only have 140 foot/pounds of energy in your hands and need 130 of them just in extra effort.
3. Width of chine to chine- the water resistance you feel pushing the extra volume and moving the water with a wider hull can be measured by the brain and it works against you. There are magic numbers for the size of the boater to make a planning hulled kayak “roll like a displacement hull” and have that work in practice, even though it is also mental.
Summary: If you got in an EZ today- you would roll it no problem, (sound like a money bet or what?!). however I can only assume you went from a Godzilla to an EZ. Do you really think that the EZ was hard to roll? Not what the general public would say if you polled them on Boatertalk or any chat board, so why you?? Because the Godzilla had more flair, a narrower chine to chine measurement, and similar cockpit/backband heights. You have since had a Hoss, which has a high backband and little flair you have been conditioned to that feeling, even if you didn’t have any success in it. Get in the EZ today and you will not self-destruct at the 50% point unless you are still very borderline as a roller in your Fun and even the most subtle changes cause the mental click from hip snap to/ head up self-destruct.
So the Eric Jackson in a rolling video would never say empower someone to use their boat as an excuse, because it ISN’T. Learning to roll is important, and learning to focus on the task at hand, even when things don’t feel just right is part of bombproofing your roll. As long as you can’t paddle a Hoss without swimming, you can’t paddle a Fun without eventually swimming too. HOWEVER>>>
Eric Jackson who makes and sells kayaks knows that when we are on the subject of equipment, and that a Fun is “embarrassingly easy to roll” he can make the paddling careers of countless paddlers better by allowing those boaters to be successful today, without bombproofing their rolls. In addition, by increasing their successes, and confidence, it is, in itself, a step towards bombproofing their rolls, where hopefully they can get over the hump to where when they get back in that “hard to roll” boat just for kicks, they find that they can use their rolling technique past the 50% point and stay on task, finishing their hip snap, rolling up and no longer having a delicate roll that can be broken down by a simple 2-5 pound impulse that is less than 1/10 of their pulling capacity.
There is a method to the madness and more than anything I want paddlers to have fun on the water and truly enjoy each outing, which a MAJOR part of this requires confidence in their roll.
That is why, “EJ’s Rolling and Bracing” is out there and why any boat that says Jackson Kayak on it is easy to roll. (the Star series is harder than the rest, but priorities prevail in those boats- playboating first, river running second, everything else is river running first, playboating second) Don’t get me started on the design concepts and mental aspects of the Fun series!
I hope that my answer is what you are looking for. I appreciate your direct questioning and that it was well thought out, not just a rant. Feel free to post this anywhere you want.
EJ
Finally Tom’s response:
Eric,
I want to sincerely thank you for your response. You are, of course, correct in everything you say. When the roll is right, there is no perception of effort. A simple body motion and everything works and the paddle seems superfulous to the whole thing. I saw your point today on the river. On the majority of rolls, everything started well, went well and ended well. But several times (for whatever reason) the flow of karma got interrupted and:
2. you will perceive some difficulty or challenge and go to autopilot (self destruct mode) where your intuitive response is to get your body out of the water (which means lift your body and head with muscles that are on the opposite side from the muscles that create a hip snap, which turns your boat on top of you (left knee for righty rolls). While you may try in vain to save yourself by pulling as hard as you can on the paddle diving it until there is nothing left and crashing back in the water
(Actually, there was no crashing, just a lousy roll. Got up, but zero style points.) As I continued I focused on “the task at hand” and, realizing when a difficulty had arisen, concentrated even more on “hip snap, head down”. Guess what? Good rolls.
Having now put the 4 Fun into some more aggressive whitewater, I am even more impressed with the design. The handling and control are awesome. You definitely have a good thing going.
I suspect you have heard this before, but your contributions to kayaking are genuinely appreciated. You are an articulate (and pretty humorous) spokesman. The videos are great (especially the jumping fish and curious dogs) and, as my wife and I are finding out (she loves her Fun), the products are great. What is hard to put into words is how much it means that a hotshot like Eric Jackson really seems to care whether or not the schmucks at my level “get it”. We have our collection of other tapes/DVDs, but in many cases it seems like it was “I have a skill I can market, so I’m marketing it.” You, on the other hand, seem to genuinely care about the sport and all participating in it.
(An introverted engineer is one who looks down at his shoes when he passes some one in the hallway. An extroverted engineer is one who looks at the other person’s shoes when he passes them in the hallway.)
thanks again
tom d.
OK, I am ready to talk rolling now-
“A good roll is where you roll up the first time every time. A great roll is where you roll up the first time, everytime, really fast.”
So what does the paddle movement look like? It isn’t specified in my definition. Why? Because that would make having a great roll impossible. Every time you tip over, your paddle will be in a different position, and the movement of the paddle to get a bite on it for the roll would be different. The body position and movement isn’t specified either because it is only important to know the best way/lowest energy way to get up, but once you are getting up everytime, the best way isn’t important.
Now to be successful at having a good roll, you need to learn the most likely way to roll up successfully. The “Easiest Way”. Easy defined as the least amount of energy/force required to get right side up from upside down. Also easy defined as an easy motion to remember for your paddle in the beginning so you can focus on the body position. Yes, to make the roll require less energy, there is best practices that can’t be argued with, simple because of physics.
Work (energy)= Force X Distance. Force is gravity and water resistance, and distance is how far you move your head and body mostly (95%), plus rotating your boat through the water (5%). Your head is 14 pounds on average. If you can do a roll that only requires it to lift 1” out of the water it will take less than 1 foot-pound of energy to get your head to that position. If you lift your head up 2’ (like a C to C roll, or any roll that you come up leaning forward, or just lift your head) it will take 28 foot pounds of energy to get your head into that position. This is 28 times more energy!!! This isn’t even talking about your body weight. If you weigh 180 pounds and your torso is 140 pounds and you lift it an average of 1.5’ out of the water you are burning 210 foot pounds of energy to roll.
One more important factor- you float, so having your head and body in the water during as much of the roll as possible means that you don’t have to support it with your paddle at all as it is floating and weighs Zero. The second you bring it up 1” out of the water, you have to support it with the paddle.
What does this mean? It means if you can keep your head and body as low to the water, and IN the water as long as possible during your roll, that will be as easy as it gets.
This position is to be laying on the back deck, head tilted down towards the water as much as it can when you have completed the roll. People who learn to roll like this complete their roll on the first try 50% more often on average. Once you get really good at rolling and confident, you don’t need to use the easiest way to roll as long as you get up. People do learn rolls like the C to C and get away with it and never have rolling issues. However, I stand by the statistic that, on average, people miss their rolls 50% more often if they don’t come up on the back deck. This number includes all of the poor souls who never got good enough to roll up leaning forward or body straight up to see them on the river. The people who never made it out of the swimming pool with a roll because they were challenged with a difficult roll to learn in comparison.
One more factor- paddle length- longer paddles are easier to roll with and provide margin for error. You don’t need a paddle to roll if you have a good hip snap and keep your body low (back deck is WAY, WAY easier to learn a hand roll and most people can’t learn it otherwise). If your paddle is long enough, you don’t need a hip snap or to keep your body low and you can lift your head straight up if you want. There is enough leverage on a long paddle to overcome poor technique. Of course, a good roll is first time everytime and if you come up the first time due to a long paddle, then your roll is better than somebody who has a short paddle and doesn’t. Short/Long??? You don’t need to buy a new paddle (but many of you should, I use a 203 and I am 5’7” tall for a reference), you can just choke up on the paddle. In fact, I recommend the extended paddle where you grip the end of your blade with one hand and have the other hand on the middle of the paddle. You will find yourself feeling like a rock star roller if you try this. “Wow, that is easy!” You will say. Then you’ll have friends and “good paddlers”, instructors, etc.. say to you, “don’t do that!” For some reason (safety of shoulders, because it is cheating, etc. etc.) and try to shame you out of it. To them I say, “my rolling up with confidence is more important to me than trying to look like everyone else.
Safety- I am getting long winded here and running out of writing time, so I’ll just say safety is about rolling the first time mostly. Shoulder safety is 100% easier if you lean back because it makes it easier to keep your arms in the “box”. “Face safety” is another old wives tale related to coming up on the back deck versus forward. Remembering #1 if you roll up the first time 50% more often, you are way less likely to fall on rocks. Secondly, you are leaning back when you complete the roll. Third, if you tip over leaning back and then tuck forward, instead of quickly rolling up, the process of tucking forward puts your head and face as deep as it goes. This is something you learn as a more advanced roller, the intuitive roll where you don’t set up the paddle, just roll up quickly. See my videos for that.
OK- Summary:
Rolling up on the back deck is first key to make your roll more dependable, easier.
Longer paddles are easier to roll with and Choking up or extended paddle roll is your BEST safety net if you do miss a roll, or if you still struggle to do a good hip snap keeping head and body low. See video below with more about paddle length, offset, bent or straight shaft, etc..
Bonus tip: Stop setting up when you tip over. Set up underwater as this is how the river works. You will panic way easier if you don’t train in flatwater to set up.
Bonus Mental tip: Panic is the killer of the roll.
How to prevent panic:
- Above tip is the first way to prevent panic- setting up underwater in practice
- Practice holding breath- get up to at least 30 seconds (bathtub, pool, in boat, wherever- panic feeling is CO2 in your lungs triggering that feeling. You can train it to be delayed so you can stay under longer VERY easily and VERY quickly. No training and you’ll panic in 10 seconds most likely.
- Try dive mask to roll. It will allow you to see and no water in your nose. Really helps most people get over the panic feeling.
- In whitewater- always do a roll in the eddy above a rapid to remind yourself that you can and do have a good roll.
- Have your underwater mantra that gives you a step by step process if you need it. “Set up, cock up, head down and hips, head on back deck” for example. This is in series so you are not using up your RAM trying to focus on too much at once, or worse, having nothing to focus on and your brain goes straight to “is there a rock, a hole, etc. downstream??? And panic and mess up roll.
- Learn the best way to focus your brain for a happier, less stress paddling experience whether upright or rolling.- See video below
I could write for another day or three on the subject. This covers some of the basics with only a bit of back up data shown. I hope you’ll try some of this on your own.
Cheryl Hullins picked up her new Ringer and we paddled together and her roll was a mess. Her paddle set up was awesome, but she missed most rolls because she didn’t go to back deck and wasn’t strong enough otherwise. Our Ringer testing turned into a roll class. Now she can roll. 64 years old, learned to paddle 2 years ago, 117 pounds soak and wet. She is fired up on paddling and can paddle much more confidently now.
She can also carry the Ringer easily and not need shoulder pads to protect her from her heavy boat.
🙂
EJ